Soccer As A Worldview

SPEAKER_01 0:00

For me, it soccer has informed my worldview. And so I think I think about it less as like a moment to be patriotic and more as a moment to be connected to the world at large.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Hello and welcome to America's Healthiest City. I am your host, Will Melton, and this is a Channel RVA production. If you're new to this program, please visit America's HealthiestCity.com to learn about our 10-year community partnership to make all of Richmond, the entire region, the healthiest in America by 2033. You can check out our ideas board where you can leave your own ideas, review others, and see what it takes to become an ambassador if you are a business, a nonprofit, an academic institution, or a government agency, and you're interested in seeing this come to reality. It takes all of us working together in the same direction, and you can learn all about uh the ideas and social determinants that we have as a foundation for our thinking around this project. This is a grassroots movement. And on this program, we're interview people who are making a cool difference here in the city and inspiring others to live a healthier life, uh, bringing us all uh toward this goal. Uh so without further ado, I would like to introduce you all to Alex Coker, the uh freelance creative director who is behind the logos of the Richmond Ivy and the Richmond Kickers and their jersey kits and uh so much more. Uh Alex, thanks for joining me today. I'm super excited to have this conversation with you as uh you and I have had the opportunity to speak in the past. Yeah, well, thank you very much for having me. So we start this program uh very simply. Uh everybody uh is either from here or they were born here. So uh tell us, are you a native to Richmond or did you come here? And if so, uh, what caused that?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, no, uh not a not a native. I'm a transplant uh originally from Ohio, came here by way of Oregon. Um so sort of a long way around. But uh my wife and I had an opportunity to come back east and be closer to family, and uh she had a great uh creative opportunity as well. And so we made the trek about four years ago now.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

So Richmond is the closest thing to Oregon that you can find on the East Coast. Is that is that what I understand?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

It's a pretty good

Finding Richmond Through Creative Work

SPEAKER_01 2:00

uh comparison at times, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Um well uh thanks for being here. Thanks for coming to Richmond. We all uh stand to gain from your presence. We all have gained from your presence. Um tell me a little bit about what uh what it's been like. You know, what are the things, the nuggets the city has given you that's inspired you and led you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, I mean, Richmond's certainly given me a lot back um in the short time that we've been here. It's some great creative opportunities working with the Richmond Kickers and the Richmond Ivy. Um that's been sort of uh the beginnings of my own business, uh Easy Friday Company. And um I was I hadn't started Easy Friday before I moved here, and and the kickers uh and the ivy were a big part of the beginnings of that and my drive to uh create art for um that will help grow the game in the United States and grow the game, I mean specifically soccer. Um, that's my background, that's where I come from. Uh I grew up playing there my whole life and found myself as a creative in the sports industry. Um when I was living in Oregon, I worked for the Portland Timbers and Thorns of Major League Soccer and the NWSL. And yeah, that's kind of where I cut my teeth in sports marketing and creative. And um moving here has been the opportunity that I needed to go ahead and go out on my own and start my own business to work with um different soccer clubs and and organizations around the area of sport.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

I love the intentionality behind that. Um, you found a sport that you love, you sticking with that sport from a professional perspective. Um, I I know a lot of people out there work a job to get paid. And uh when we have a choice to do a thing that we love, uh gosh, it's got to be so rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Definitely. Um, yeah, I mean, it's it's a beautiful marriage between two of my passions, between soccer and creativity and getting to merge those things and uh not just do it for the pure enjoyment, but that um, you know, each of my clients has goals and their goals are to grow, to reach a bigger audience, to have a bigger impact with the audio, their existing audience. And so um having sort of that business acumen and background to help support that work uh for my clients is something that is incredibly rewarding. Um, you know, the Richmond Ivy is a great example of a club that didn't exist prior to. And when I connected with the front office of the Richmond Kickers, um, you know, I was reaching out to them just to see if I could like help make t-shirts or scarves, something that would be fun and on the side. And when I learned that they were starting a women's club, I was like, oh, well, let's talk about that because that's the thing that I think I could really um lend my skill set to and help elevate and make uh make an impact in the community. And it's really fun to see, you know, flags and scarves and things uh out and about in the city. And it it really changes, you know, how you view, like, oh, my work is actually uh touching other people's lives in in a big way.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

I think as I talk to other creatives, that's one of the things that uh surprises me that surprises them, that there's this moment that they are, you know, kind of realizing the fruits of their labor and seeing it out in the marketplace. The

Picking Teams And Showing Up

SPEAKER_02 5:20

same thing happened with, you know, Hamilton Glasses Artwork is everywhere, but you know, to see it on a physical product was kind of a cool thing for him. And I think that's something that's a recurring theme for a lot of creatives. Um, but uh before we get too deep into that, I want to talk a little bit about soccer because man, it's a great time to be in America. Yeah. Uh a lot of a lot going on in soccer, both, you know, internationally, but also locally, there's a lot of things going on in soccer. So um who's your team and uh what do you what do you think about what's happening?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Uh well, as an American soccer fan, I I think we're in a unique place because it's not often that our teams are like bequeathed to us by our families. So we get to choose. And with the global nature of soccer now, um, you could choose many teams across the world and then pick different teams. So um I am as far as like major league soccer goes, uh Columbus Crew is my first team. I grew up going to games uh when I was like eight years old, um, being from Ohio, and then have a lot of love for the Timbers, you know, spent uh eight plus years working with them and had some amazing experiences, going to MLS Cup, traveling with the team, a lot of a lot of wonderful experiences for that. So the major league soccer, those two for sure. Uh NWSL, definitely the Thorns. Um, you know, locally, obviously the Richmond Kickers and the Richmond Ivy, they play in different tiers than those that I've previously mentioned. Uh, and then abroad, uh, Arsenal was probably my first love. Um, speaking of the World Cups, like I 1998 was probably the first World Cup that I really clued in on as a kid and followed it deeply. And Thierry Henry was an incredible athlete and uh had an amazing World Cup and just I clued on him and I was like, where does he play? He played for Arsenal and and the rest was history.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

We got a couple of Arsenal fans in the house uh here today. So uh we won't tell them because they'll come busting in here, but um yeah, so uh interestingly, we have uh a new coach on the kickers, so that's uh that's a change. I guess they I I read that they lost their first game with a new coach, but any perception, thoughts on that? I I haven't been uh avid uh uh game uh attender this year. I've been incredibly busy, but I've got to get out there.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah. Um you know, the the sporting side of things, it's everyone's gonna have their own thoughts and opinions on it and uh what they deem is success. And for me, I think it's exciting that we have this new coach. Um, I think the team could, you know, needed some fresh energy. And um I think the kickers have shown through their time with Darren that, you know, they're gonna stick by you. And so um my hope is that they can turn it around and get some more wins. And you know, for me, I I think uh win, loser, draw, getting out to the matches and being part of the community and being there locally, like that's my that's the part that I enjoy. If you want to go see the highest level of soccer in the area that you can, you go see the kickers or the ivy, and and that's just the fun and the joy of it for me.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah, and it won't matter for our viewing audience um because this is prerecorded, but there's an Ivy game tonight. That's right. Uh, and I have to miss that. Um, but the rain's gonna clear up in time for that game, so that's good news. Um now uh the kickers uh the city stadium is also uh putting on uh World Cup matches in the stadium this year. Have you been able to get out to that?

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah, this past Friday I went to um a US versus Australia watch party and it sold out. Really? It's free, but you have to register. Obviously, they have tickets in a limited capacity. So uh it was sold out and just the crowd was amazing. Like Richmond really turned out for the World Cup match, and it was really exciting to see.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

I was talking to Tom Pritzel about that, and uh I I knew it wouldn't be successful, but to know that it was a sellout, that's awesome. That's really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah, it's really exciting. That's the sort of uh ripple effect a competition like the World Cup can have for lower tier teams. And you know, I think uh it it you see the effects later on in a month from now when like kids are out there kicking around because they want to be the player that they just saw on TV. Well, we're gonna take a quick break and uh we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

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What A Sports Brand Really Is

SPEAKER_02 10:02

kits. We're talking about all things soccer because that's what it's all about. And uh I am not the uh the biggest soccer person in the world, but as I've mentioned to you in the past, I've come around uh Richmond Waters partnership with uh kickers and having refill stations out there has been a fun thing to explore and to understand more about uh the world of sports. And and when we spoke before, we talked a lot about the um sort of the the captive audience and and all of the the elements and the artifacts and the things that go into building an exciting experience for a fan. It's not just a logo, it's a lot more than that. So uh can you tell our listeners a little bit about what that process is like and how um you go about thinking about what you know the end-to-end of that looks like?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

For sure. Yeah, there's there's multiple parts to a brand, right? And I I think from a 30,000-foot view, uh, a brand is not just what it looks like, but it's also the experiences you have with the people uh that are part of that organization. And so, you know, from a soccer point of view, like the brand's experiences, your touch points with the ticket sales staff or customer service, merchandise, um, you know, what is it like being at the game, um, the athletes, all of those things, that experience part is part of the brand. And uh where I come in is sort of the visual identity. And um, the visual identity is something that isn't just a logo, like you said, it's multiple parts. And with the way modern marketing uh functions and all of the different channels that we have to be present on, um, especially in sport where you have the physical aspect, you have the digital uh broadcast, et cetera, um, your brand identity, the visual identity, needs to be adaptive and flexible. And so what I like to do is design in systems. Um, so you have sort of a primary mark, maybe a secondary one that's a takedown of that, uh, perhaps an icon that you can pull out of that. And then obviously every um organization has a name, and so you have word marks, different aspects, and um, that's sort of the visual brand package that I create for my my clients. And then um, you know, you include color and typography and um some guidelines along with that to kind of get them started. And that's that's really like just the foundation of it. Um, you mentioned the kit design uh earlier, and and that's sort of like the next step, the next stage of uh for a soccer club. Like there's there's no better piece of brand marketing than what the club and what the athletes are wearing on the field. And so for us, um, our strategy has been to tell hyper-local Richmond stories through our jersey design. And that's been a really um, really enjoyable part of this, you know, relationship that's been building now over three years is getting to tell some really unique stories through the kit design and um then produce a campaign to, you know, you can design a great kit, but if you don't show everyone what it is and tell that story appropriately, uh it might fall on deaf ears. And so getting to work with different talented photographers, um, work at different uh iconic locations in Richmond, um, it really makes it feel full circle and then come together.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

That's um that's a lot of intentionality that goes into something that when you walk into the stadium and you sit down to watch the game, you might not ever think about. You know, it's just you see the jerseys, you see the colors, you're you're you're a fan, you feel it in your heart. But there's a lot of work that goes into to getting that moment right.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, for sure. I mean, while we are definitely the the Richmond Kickers and Ivy are definitely here to serve the community, um, I think there's a a desire to be uh recognized in the national landscape of soccer. And I think one of the ways that a smaller club can do that is by um being really creative and putting themselves out there in a way that gets Jersey collectors or just the national soccer media talking about what they do. And um, you know, this first pass at doing these sort of kit campaigns and launches um has been, I will say, pretty successful and an exciting starting point for the club and and I to continue this type of work.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

So um I'm gonna talk a little bit about that because um there's there's a few angles here. I could

Jerseys That Tell Richmond Stories

SPEAKER_02 14:20

go down a political route and I'll talk about that briefly, but there's the the you know, sort of the national sort of vibe that we have and and whether we're we're all in sync with that or not. You know, I was talking to my mom uh of her father's day and she said, you know, I was feeling uh down about America and until the World Cup started, and you know, all the European fans are like, you know, we don't have this kind of patriotism. This is really cool. And she started to to remember, you know, like what we're all trying to do with this experiment. Um but in America, soccer is a growing sport. It's it's becoming more popular, it's it's got a lot of legs. So you're in a great business, obviously, in a in a in a growing industry. But um tell me what you think about uh that, you know, what motivates the growth of the sport and what might we be able to to benefit from as more people you know become fans and go to games and meet other folks.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, I mean I from the the sort of connective tissue, I think it's partly, you know, your local community and and getting there's there's few things that bring me more joy than like connecting and hanging out with a couple of friends and kicking a ball around. So there's just on the pure basis of like what the game is, it is it's so much fun and it and it is easy to do, and all you need is a ball. Like I know that's kind of a trite saying, but like truly that's it. Um but it can connect you globally, and I think we're seeing that now, right? And it's the the Scottish fans flooding Fenway Park and chanting throughout the entire baseball game. Like there's there's a shared cultural experience in that moment, and that's just one micro example of what can happen uh day to day on on the scale of of how you experience the game. Um for me, it soccer has informed my worldview. And so I think I think about it less as like a moment to be patriotic and more as a moment to be connected to the world at large.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So, what does the future look like for your work? Do you have uh some ambitions to work with other teams? Are you do you are you working on some other projects?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah. Um my I have been really fortunate to focus almost my all of my work entirely uh in soccer. Um I've worked with different organizations, uh different clubs. I helped brand and launch the Cleveland, uh, sorry, Cleveland Astra, which is a women's team, and the Forest City Cleveland, which is their uh sibling club. And that's uh out in Cleveland, Ohio. Um so that's a new project that I just completed uh earlier this year, which is very exciting. Um and yeah, as far as ambitions go, you know, I just completed a project working with uh the restaurant chilies of all places. And um, you know, getting to partner with brands, I think is one of the more exciting areas right now, too. That's not just working in clubs uh and those that are like already entrenched in the sport, but um kind of being a uh a Sherpa of sorts of like there are unique, distinct things that happen in soccer culture and for brands and organizations that want to get involved, but do so in a meaningful and authentic way. Um it's a that's a that's an exciting like Venn diagram for me to play in creatively.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, as a just as a consumer of of the internet, you know, I've watched a lot of the ads and on YouTube for various brands that are tapping into the World Cup. And um it's amazing. It's really amazing how uh attached fans get to the players. I think I saw one ad that had like four star-studded players in it, and the it was a reaction video on an Instagram or something, and the guy was just screaming at the top of his lungs about how exciting

Fandom, Tribalism, And Connection

SPEAKER_02 17:55

it was to have this one star, and then it was another star and another star and another star. And uh I I've not I've never really been that big of a like a fanatic of of anything, but I can certainly see how um when you fall in love with something and you really get entrenched in it, that all the parts are the things that make life exciting.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, whether it's the fandom and a particular player that uh you enjoy watching and that sparks some sort of creativity in you that you want to go out and try or that move that they did, um, you know, or if it's the the team that you go to and it, I don't know. There's so there's so many like human experiences that people get to have around sport. And um, you know, there's there's pros and cons to like the tribalism that can be when you're a club or a nation and you're fighting for that. And like there's definitely a a dark underbelly that can happen. And you know, I think football is known for its uh sorry, I use that interchangeably, football and soccer. Um, I think football is known for that. Uh, you know, especially in England, there was like a dark period in the 70s and 80s of hooliganism. Um, but the the opposite side of that is is so true and more prevalent in that it's about connecting, about being among friends, about celebrating and like commiserating together. And I think that's a that is a powerful need for humans is to do that en masse and go into your local kickers game or to uh you know see the national team play on the world stage. Uh both things can be true and can be felt in real ways.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Well, it's uh it's an exciting world. I think uh I'm curious for you, with so much soccer. Uh, is there space for any other sports?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Um I am an appreciator of competition, uh, but no, there's so much soccer in the world that um I just can only dedicate so much time to following the sport. And so yeah, a casual observer of all sports, but uh a diehard fan of soccer alone. And that's yeah, I don't think my wife would appreciate any more sport being added into my mix during a day. She tolerates the soccer though. I often joke that she is the world's least interested, most well-traveled soccer fan of all time, uh, because she indulges me anytime we travel uh and she's she's seen games all over the world. We're very fortunate to be able to say that. And um, yeah, she loves it when it's part of the cultural and uh experience uh of that place that we're visiting.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

So well, we're gonna take a another quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk a little bit about the future of Richmond and um how we can move toward becoming the healthiest region in America.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

So you've probably figured out by now that Richmond Water is on Westbroad Street. But where the heck else is it? You can find us online. We're at drinkrichmondwater.com, and there's lots of ways to engage with our website here. But if you come all the way down the bottom, that's where you will find the map. Free refill stations across the city. Just open this Google map that we have here that you can submit to at any time, and you'll find these pink dots are the Richmond Water Refill Stations, of course, uh Broad Street, and then over at City Stadium. And then all of the little blue dots are other places that have water refill stations where you can get free water across Richmond City. Join us in making free water more accessible on drinkrichmondwater.com.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Welcome back to America's Healthiest City, a channel RVA production. I'm your host, Will Melton, and today we have Alex Coker in the studio. Uh, we're at Westbroad Studios in downtown Richmond, and uh today we're talking about soccer. So Alex is the creative director behind the Ivy and the Kickers logos and jersey kits. And

City Growth And Stadium Upgrades

SPEAKER_02 21:40

uh we're talking about how soccer connects fans to each other and to their country and to so many other uh elements of their community. Um in that spirit, uh, we are all about trying to find ways and pathways to bring Richmond along. And so part of the reason we tell these stories is so that the folks who might be at home thinking, You know, nobody's doing anything to make this place better. You know, they can see that there are a lot of people doing that and and kind of pull them along. Uh and so I'm curious about your thoughts. You've been here for a little while. You know, what do you think is happening now? We're seeing a lot of change, a lot of transition and um growth. Um, some good, some bad, obviously always. But uh, what do you think? How do you feel about how things are going and and where do you see things going as we we go forward?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, uh Richmond is a a beautiful city. Uh, I think it's got a vibrant culture, and um, you know, I do have a limited experience, I think, to a lot of folks who have grown up here and and seen many changes. Um, I visited my very first time to Richmond was in 2016. So I do have like a blip of a touch point, like what was it back then? And and I know places like Scott's Edition have completely changed uh within that time period. And so um coming from the Rust Belt, the Midwest, um, I've I am for progress. I'm for seeing uh development happen and as long as it's done in sustainable and responsible ways and like certainly a thoughtful manner. Um so you know, for me, what I hope for Richmond is that we continue to have open dialogues with the community to make sure that those that are currently in specific places are being represented in the changes that are made. Um and I hope that that's uh that continues to be and that we make progress uh making a healthy city.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

So and and teak keeping with the theme of soccer, uh, what do you think about the future of our teams here and and soccer in Richmond and City Stadium? Uh, what what needs to happen? What do you think is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Uh City Stadium is definitely a facility that could use a little love, especially on the far end. Um, but I mean it's it is a great place for soccer. I think that pitch in particular um is probably one of the best in all of USL. And we do have um an amazing fan experience on the what is that, the west side of the stadium. Um so I think it's uh it's in a great position right now to seize the growth that is coming our way in soc in soccer in America, but also soccer in USL. Um USL is the governing body that uh covers the Richmond Kickers League. Uh we play in USL League One. There is a tier above that called USL Championship, and there is a tier that will be founded above that uh in 2028 uh called USL Premier. And when USL Premier is starts their league, um, that will be the first time that we introduce promotion relegation into the United States. And I think for clubs like the kickers, that is one of the most exciting things that could be happening in soccer here uh in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

So I understand that um there's a hope that getting the World Cup games into the stadium is going to bring people to the games uh that they haven't been to, that they maybe haven't really fallen in love with the local teams. What do you see being the future of the team's, you know, kind of connectivity to the community and and what does growth look like for uh for, I mean, obviously the Ivy is a newer team and you know they're not playing as many games. Uh how does that actually maybe you can know the answer to that question? Are they slated to play more games as time passes, or is it going to kind of be capped to this um format?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, um, so currently the Richmond Ivy plays in what's called the USLW, and that's a semi-professional league. So most of these athletes are um college students, or you even have a few high school athletes that are standouts that are playing with the Richmond Ivy. Um so that uh because of the semi-professional nature of it, that league is kind of limited to the summer window when students aren't in school. So as far as their current format, um, I don't know that they'll be able to add more games to the mix for them. Um, but that's not to say that the club isn't ambitious. And USL has just started uh what's called the Super League. Um I think they're maybe in year two now. Um, but that is a professional uh first division women's league in the United States that kind of rivals the NWSL. And so who knows what the future might hold uh for the Richmond Ivy. Maybe someday they're playing in the USL Super League. Cool. Well, that would be really cool. Yeah, it'd be really fun.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, well, I've I've definitely been um you know watching the fan numbers grow for both teams. And I think uh Richmond gets bigger, it's bound to just be a pack stadium every game here pretty soon. We'd love that. Yeah, come on out. Well,

Third Spaces That Make Us Healthier

SPEAKER_02 26:40

um we we ask all of our guests uh a couple of questions. Um, you know, one, um, I'm curious what your thoughts are as you think about what makes a city healthy. Uh, what might be something that um folks might choose to do uh as a means to contribute, uh small ways are big. And then uh we also like to know who else is out there making the city what it is and and who should we talk to to get their story.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah. Um well, I think as far as uh what makes a healthy city, it's it's sort of those third spaces and for people to come together and connect, maybe play some soccer. Um, so if there's more opportunity, you know, I know out in Church Hill there's a great futsal court um that was recently built in the past few years. Um, and I've been out there to play with a few of my friends recently, and and it is uh awesome to see we've you know mixed it up with like middle school and high school kids that are out there playing as well, and we just kind of rotate games and like play together. And so more spaces like that, more soccer facilities that are just always open. Um, you know, I think there's a larger conversation, and we'd probably need another three podcast episodes to talk about uh pay-to-play and what that does to the United States and the development leagues and our youth programming and the pressure that we put on youth athletes. Um that's a that's a whole nother topic, but um, you know, having the ability for young athletes to go out and play will inherently make a healthier city uh because, you know, the the number of people that go professional is limited. It's the 0.0% or 01% that are, you know, making a career out of this. And uh, but I can speak from my own experience that like as an athlete growing up, um, you take a lot of those healthy habits with you. And and I think that's what sport can really do for the youth is like establish uh good values, um healthy habits. And when you're physically healthy, when you're personally healthy, you can be mentally happy. Uh, and and then that I think just radiates outwards in how you interact with your community and how you um support the people that are around you. And so uh yeah, as far as the city and what can be healthy or how we can be healthier, I think it starts at an individual level, and I think sport can do a lot for that.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

I appreciate that a lot because as a as a child, I was not uh an athlete. And I even I tried out for uh for baseball when I was in first grade, and the pitcher hit my hands and I ran off the field crying, and my dad said, Okay, you don't have to play baseball. Um and I but for me as a kid, it was like it was hard, you know. It was it was hard to do the presidential fitness test, and I didn't want to be embarrassed by that. And so there was like a whole social thing going on for me, but it wasn't until you know really a couple of years ago that I started to appreciate uh the value of uh being in shape. And and I say that meaning like that you can go work out and and exert yourself physically and not feel like you're gonna die when you're done, but and maybe feel better when you're done. Yeah. Um, that's been a really uh great gift. So I I I thank you for sharing that with our guests. Of course. And um is there is there somebody that you would recommend to come on this show that whose story we we can pick apart?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, I think uh Jason St. Peter is a man that I've gotten to know, another fellow creative that I've gotten to know over the past year or so. Um he is creative director and founder of Think804. It's another creative agency here in town. And uh Jason is someone that is very much rooted in the fabric of Richmond and the community here, especially through all of his work. Um, so I think it'd be a great conversation.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

I think so too. Well, I appreciate you coming on and chatting with us. Uh, enjoyed learning more about you, uh, even from our previous conversation. And uh, we'd love to have you back as things evolve here for soccer and and for your career. Well, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, it's been great talking with you and would love to come back anytime.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

So that's a wrap, folks. Please check out America's Healthiest City.com to find out how you can get involved and uh subscribe to this program on channelrva.com or on America's HealthiestCity.com so you can get updated when new podcast episodes are dropped. See you next time.